Big South Conference Play

Straight from the hardwood of Kimmel Arena...

Moderators: kingaling42, baughn22

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:45 pm

I think we would be a 15 seed even if we lose another regular season game. There will undoubtedly be some upsets in other conference tourneys that will put us, at 24-10, comfortably in a 15 slot.

Agreed on Winthrop though. Will be tough to beat next week. Need GW to help us out!!
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:50 pm

After all this emotion from the come back and all, I'm more concerned about showing up against Liberty. They've been playing better. 4 out of the last 5
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby hpufan15 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 am

If I had to bet money on it I would have to choose Winthrop after what I saw on Saturday night. I think Winthrop has the complete package. Adam Pickett can just drive by your guard and kick it to the outside shooters that can knock down 3s in the broman brothers. It is hard to stop Xavier cooks and Josh Ferguson has really developed into a nice player!

It looks like I will either be going to Winthop or UNCA now. I don't think there is anyway someone else hosts now! You guys and Winthrop would have to collapse!

Campbell and Clemons still scares me! I would not want to have to face them until the final in the tournament!

I also think Chris Clemons has to win POY for the conference. 25 PPG 5 Boards 3 Assists a game. Field Goal and 3 Point Percentage going up from last year!



I looked this up and was blown away. Chris Clemons already has amassed 2031 points and his junior year is not even completed! He came in has the 48th all time scorer in Big South Conference History. He Currently Sits 10th all time.

RK PTS PLAYER, SCHOOL, YEARS
1. 2,556 Reggie Williams, VMI, 2004-08
2. 2,229 John Brown, High Point, 2012-16
3. 2,211 Larry Blair, Liberty, 2003-07
4. 2,151 Tony Dunkin, Coastal Carolina, 1989-93
5. 2,146 Stan Okoye, VMI, 2009-13
6. 2,121 Nick Barbour, High Point, 2008-12
7. 2,076 Keon Johnson, Winthrop, 2013-17
8. 2,069 Arizona Reid, High Point, 2004-08
9. 2,065 Chavis Holmes, VMI, 2005-09
10.2,031 Chris Clemons, Campbell 2015-2018

If he comes back and stays healthy he will be the all time leading scorer. Are we looking at the best player in Big South History?
hpufan15
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:21 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:57 am

Quick glance at the all time scoring list and.....I'm not sure I see the "best" Big South player on there.

I see a bunch of guys who scored a lot of points but, outside of Keon Johnson....Liberty won in 2004, right? So, outside of Keon Johnson I think I see one championship. Durkin might have a couple. Not sure.

Clemons might earn one this year. Might have a better shot next year.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:36 am

GoUNCA wrote:After all this emotion from the come back and all, I'm more concerned about showing up against Liberty. They've been playing better. 4 out of the last 5


Ohhhh I'm concerned about all of them! No easy games left on the schedule. ESPN only gives us 56% chance to beat Liberty, had Radford at 70%+. Scottie James (Frosh? JuCo? Nope, transfer from Bradley) has come on really strong for them here in the back portion of the Big South schedule, our bigs will need to step up to the challenge.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 am

Other Thursday games:

1) Charleston Southern @ Longwood - Final outcome not all that important, but we want this game to go into quadruple overtime. I think Farmville to Charleston might be longest trip in Big South (??) and we are at the BucDome Saturday evening.
2) Winthrop @ Gardner Webb - One time, Running Bulldogs. One. Time.
3) High Point @ PC - Need Presbyterian to win for tie breaker purposes (we split with HP, WU swept)
4) Campbell @ Radford (ESPNU, 9pm) - Need Campbell to win for tie breaker purposes.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am

Lot of topics in this thread..

FOY- Carlik Jones, obviously.. and yes I think it is a somewhat down year for the frosh conference wide but remember there are some talented players that are not playing for teams that have depth.. we have 2 guys in particular, one just didn't quite adjust into our system with others guys ahead of him (Seegars) and another was injured early (Thorpe) that are better than Jones who plays in a system that HS players can more easily adjust to. Credit to Jones though, he's played consistently and very well for Radford.

Clemons- one of the best scorers in conference history in a 4 year span.. absolutely. Best player ever? Not even close.

Don't be mesmerized by numbers, there are some serious studs that played on teams that were balanced offensively and defensively over the 20 years I've seen. Clemons is a helluva scorer but he's simply not the best player, especially at 5'9".. for the record Tony Dunkin won 3 'chips in 4 years and missed the last third of his junior year which is coincidentally the only year they didn't win it.. Only player in history to win POY all 4 years.

Clemons will return next year- where would he go? NBA? Let's be serious for a minute considering he's 5'9" Junior in a mid-major conference.. Unless he's from Gardner Webb he's not going overseas early.. Could he go pro next year- odds are against him but he's really athletic with a lot of bounce for a diminutive guard- who's he going to guard in the league though? See I. Thomas (Celtics, Cavs, Lakers) for the worst defender in the league.. MaCio lit him up for 36 pts just last week..

POY *Stats are conference only numbers, not overall*
1. Cooks is frontrunner in my eyes as much as his diva personality irritates me- 2nd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 1st in blocks (17.8, 8.4, 3.6, 2.1) and his team is better than CU/RU. 2nd in FG %
2. Thomas- 4th in scoring, 6th in rebounding, 7th in assists, 2nd steals (17.6, 6.1, 3.3, 1.9)- team is better, more balanced than CU. 1st in FG %.
3. Clemons is 1st in scoring, 14th in rebounding, 23rd in assists, 3rd in steals (25.9, 4.9, 2.2, 1.8).

All-Conference
After the guys above then its clearly Polite, Teague, Keeling, Broman B..
After that the toss ups are.. Vannatta (good enough but could we get 3 if we don't finish in 1st?), Efianayi/O'Reilly (only one will make it- I'd lean towards Efianayi), Fox/Proctor (only 1 will make it- I'd lean towards Fox), Scottie James (LU); Burke (CU) really faded as conference play has gone on but was really good early so should have impressed voters.. Walton and Dillard just don't play for good enough teams IMHO..

Conference Tourney- we're in the drivers seat but the head-to-head vs Winthrop will obviously be pivotal. Liberty at home, @CSU, and GWebb on the road aren't cupcakes, Lose to WU and they own the head-to-head in tie breaking scenarios. If we win and still tie WU overall I think the Campbell sweep is most important as WU/CU split and I think CU will finish no worse than 4th.

Liberty- let's not forget they swept Winthrop this year, so over-looking them will get you beat- especially if they shoot the ball well.. it's unlikely we'll shoot 62.5% from 3 pt land so gotta take care of business.. Baehre needs to redeem himself against another quality big as Scottie James had 19 pts, 7 boards in our first matchup.. As stated Liberty has righted the ship after losing 5 straight as they've won 4 of their last 5. Despite leading from start to finish, Liberty forced us into 19 turnovers in that first game.
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 am

"Best player" is subjective b/c everybody is going to have different metrics.

Reggie Williams is the league's all-time leading scorer and, at 200+ games, presumably has the most NBA experience of any player in conference history. If you are talking strictly about individual talent and individual success, he's the best player. If you are starting a team from scratch, you pick him first. Not really even a close second.

If you are going to factor in team success and non-scoring metrics, I'd say Torrell Martin from Winthrop would be at the top of the list. 2x tournament MVP, 3x all-conference, great defender, best player on probably the best team in conference history, etc.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:14 pm

Agree on the NBA experience of Williams- how would you consider Seth Curry? One year at Liberty clearly doesn't account for best all-time in any league but... only current player in the league (118 games and counting).. Liberty represents 3 of the 4 NBA players ever (Curry, Peter Aluma, Julius Nwoso)

Here are current pros https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-South-Conference/21/in-the-pros in case anyone is interested..

Best Players by team Shortlist
VMI- Reggie Williams (Holmes twins played 2nd/3rd fiddle)
HP- AZ Reid, John Brown- (Barbour was good but not on their level)
Winthrop- Greg Lewis, T. Martin, Tyson Waterman arguably their best guard- I'll defer to WEF's thoughts here as well..
Liberty- Aluma, Blair, Curry
Radford- Big Art in only 2 years 1195 pts/783 boards.. Doug Day is 2K scorer in Dunkin's days.. Jason Williams, Whit Holcombe-Faye
Coastal- Tony Dunkin- 4X POY
GWebb- Artis Gilmore predates the conference
Campbell- Clemons - Eric Griffin although there for only 2 years is arguably a better athlete/player not a better scorer
CSU- TL Latson, Saah Nimley, Brett Larrick
Presby- Al'lonzo Coleman
Longwood- Michael Kessens because I'm too lazy/disinterested in looking at their record books


UNCA- PIttman- 2x POY, D1 scoring leader upon graduation, 20 year pro career makes him IMHO our best player. Dickey, Primm obviously had great careers on our best consecutive teams. Andre Smith, Kevin Martin- D1 HOFers currently. Pre-D1 guys-Jim McElhaney, Bamford Jones, Paul Allen, Mike Grace all HOFer's. Rowsey if he stayed around would've top our scoring list- 1244 points in 2 years.

Side note- I'd like to point out we historically had a guy in Mickey Gibson who only played 2 years who scored 1179 pts from 1968-70 making a strong case for our own program although pre-D1. Gibson transferred from Kentucky after his soph year because Adolph Rupp didn't allow players to be married. Rowsey-esque totals in fewer games.
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:49 pm

Agree 100% on Pittman. If we are going to go back to pre-Big South years, Jerome Kersey (RIP) is Longwood's best player.

I wouldn't count players that finished their careers elsewhere as being the best in Big South history.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:54 pm

Really wasn't meaning to start that best player stuff. I think those conversations are pretty meaningless. I was trying to emphasize championships - not really put down players. All those players were quite good, no doubt.

In other unrelated basketball talk - I tried to teach a simple 5 out motion to our Special Olympics team (pretty high functioning) before a qualifier next week at Georgetown Prep. For a secondary option. Let's just say every coach's job in the world is safe.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby hpufan15 on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:37 pm

UNCA Alum wrote:"Best player" is subjective b/c everybody is going to have different metrics.

Reggie Williams is the league's all-time leading scorer and, at 200+ games, presumably has the most NBA experience of any player in conference history. If you are talking strictly about individual talent and individual success, he's the best player. If you are starting a team from scratch, you pick him first. Not really even a close second.

If you are going to factor in team success and non-scoring metrics, I'd say Torrell Martin from Winthrop would be at the top of the list. 2x tournament MVP, 3x all-conference, great defender, best player on probably the best team in conference history, etc.



I 100% agree. I am a numbers guy! 1 player doesn't win championships. I saw that 1st hand with John Brown for High Point. Hands down best player in the league during his 4 years but couldn't win a championship. Again just in my opinion...John Brown best player I have seen in my time of following Big South Basketball since 2009.

But I understand other people's points. If Clemmons had another scorer around him like Xavier Cooks he will probably not be that high on the list! All depends on the players situation. A player could be on a bad team scoring tons of points while a player that may be seen as better many average less cause he is surrounded by better talent
hpufan15
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:21 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:59 pm

At this point in the season (key qualifier), I would give Clemons the POY nod over Cooks. Cooks is certainly the more well rounded player and has better overall stats, but Clemons is single-handedly keeping Campbell in the top half of the league. Take Cooks away from Winthrop and you still have a team probably battling for a spot in the Top 5.

1) He's putting up 25 a night on only 16 shots per game. Great at getting to the line and shoots an unbelievably high percentage from the field given the degree of difficulty for most of his shots.
2) He's leading the scoring race by 7-8 points, so saying he ranks 1st and Cooks ranks 2nd doesn't really tell the whole story.
3) He has two buzzer beaters and the 40 burger against Liberty.

Obviously if Campbell loses their final 4 games and/or Winthrop wins the league outright, you probably give it to Cooks.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:19 pm

UNCA Alum wrote:Take Cooks away from Winthrop and you still have a team probably battling for a spot in the Top 5.


I mean, Top 5 isn't easy, but they have the residual athleticism to do that. I doubt they get to top 3 though.

I think he is the glue though. The assists alone speaks volumes. So maybe not.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:43 am

Andrew Eudy has the best +/- for Campbell overall and I always wonder if some teams are actually hindered by these great scorers.. however, Clemons is very efficient and has the best PER of conference players so numerically he helps Campbell more than he hurts. But I don't think he's single-handedly keeping the Camels where they are because as mentioned he's not taking a ton of shots so other guys (Burk, Eudy, Gensler, Whitfield) are contributing at fair levels albeit not as consistently each and every game.. Clemons is 2nd on his own team in FG% and 3pt FG%(Burk is higher in both) so he's not just paving the way for everyone on that team despite his ability to produce points at the FT line- which is where his separation occurs.

Getting to the line and putting pressure on defenses is a good thing but I'm not sure that one facet outweighs the overall effect that Cooks and even Ahmad have on more successful teams that are also more balanced. We've seen how the 'Dogs look when Ahmad has played limited minutes and the results haven't been good- take Cooks and Thomas out of the equations and I don't think they look all that different than taking Clemons off the Camels roster- each team would have to figure out ways to have other guys produce and there is a dropoff no doubt but not an abyss for any of these 3 teams.

In the 2 D1 games Clemons missed with the ankle injury this year the Camels had well rounded scoring in close losses to Bowling Green (2nd in their MAC division, middling team) and @ECU (not so good this year) and I wonder how much he holds back other guys from gaining confidence. Marcus Burk is a good example- he really stepped up his scoring in the OOC slate while Clemons was getting back from the injury. At several times early those 2 guys were the top 2 scorers in the conference.

For the record Baehre is our top +/- guy which is also why I harp on his level of play from game to game because it has a such big impact on our games and it is always surprising to see how those top +/- guys translate to results in ways that don't include traditional stats (scoring, rebounding, assists, etc). So despite Clemons scoring, the key for the Camels would be to help Eudy stay out of foul trouble and stay on the court for more minutes- they are more successful when he's playing.

Good conversation and we all have our thoughts..
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 am

Campbell only loses Lado and Whitfield (the taller), who contribute good minutes. So, they'll need to replace some minutes on the frontline next year, but I think they are set to be quite a strong team. But, I think the difference between this year's team and that potentially strong team hinges on Eudy, Burk, and Gensler improving together.

I think Clemons has less improvement potential - he is already quickest in the league, he finishes well, and his shooting speaks for itself. On top of that I think he knows their system pretty well and plays smart *most* of the time. I'm sure a coach will find things to work on, but I think at this point it's marginal returns to a degree. Mark my words on this one, so when he comes back even more dominant I can remember!

Interesting to hear Baehre is our best +/- guy. Really impressed with his improvement through the year.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:31 am

Yeah I think "Most Outstanding Player" would be a better name for the award than most valuable. Eudy is a good example... sometimes your value is driven more by a lack of a replacement than by your on court performance. He's a solid Big South big man, but they just have no post depth and really struggle when he's not out there. Put Wnuk or Ferguson on Campbell's roster and Eudy's value isn't so high.

I think Winthrop and Asheville have MUCH more talented rosters than Campbell after you take off the best players. Burk for sure would crack the rotation at both schools and Eudy isn't a fair comparison b/c his style of play doesn't fit, but I don't see Gensler and Whitfield (or obviously any of their bench players) getting any PT for us or Winthrop. Could be wrong, I admittedly don't watch all of their games.

3.6 assists per game is impressive for Cooks, as is the fact that he's 2nd in the league. But there's a huge logjam of guys in that 2.5 - 3.6 assists per game range. Lovell Cabbill is averaging 3.0 assists per game and ranks 12th in the league. Not trying to discount assists at all, just saying that Clemons monstrous lead in the scoring department is still a much bigger factor for me than the assist rankings.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:36 am

GoUNCA wrote:Campbell only loses Lado and Whitfield (the taller), who contribute good minutes. So, they'll need to replace some minutes on the frontline next year, but I think they are set to be quite a strong team. But, I think the difference between this year's team and that potentially strong team hinges on Eudy, Burk, and Gensler improving together.

I think Clemons has less improvement potential - he is already quickest in the league, he finishes well, and his shooting speaks for itself. On top of that I think he knows their system pretty well and plays smart *most* of the time. I'm sure a coach will find things to work on, but I think at this point it's marginal returns to a degree. Mark my words on this one, so when he comes back even more dominant I can remember!

Interesting to hear Baehre is our best +/- guy. Really impressed with his improvement through the year.


No guarantee that Clemons comes back. He looked at going pro last year and is good enough to play in the D-League / go overseas and make good money. Don't know where he's at academically, but he also could be a transfer option if the new rule passes or if he graduates early.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:19 am

UNCA Alum wrote:No guarantee that Clemons comes back. He looked at going pro last year and is good enough to play in the D-League / go overseas and make good money. Don't know where he's at academically, but he also could be a transfer option if the new rule passes or if he graduates early.


Don't tease us.

Most around the league are already placing bets on MaCio leaving.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby Bulldogs1125 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:28 pm

Campbell will probably win 10 games in the league this year. I'm telling you right now they win no more than 4 if you replace clemons with an average guard. Burk is strictly catch n shoot, Eudy is a nice player but cannot carry the load offensively and teams have literally stopped guarding Whitfield because he can't make a shot outside of 5 feet. I can hear an argument for Cooks because he is still the leagues biggest matchup nightmare and absolutley unstoppable...when he tries. But come on now...Chris Clemons is a stud and one of the most dynamic players in this leagues history. He singlehandedly knocked out a UNCA team last year who according to kenpom was the best Big South team since Greg Marshall's peak at Winthrop.
Bulldogs1125
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:44 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby hpufan15 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 am

Bulldogs1125 wrote:Campbell will probably win 10 games in the league this year. I'm telling you right now they win no more than 4 if you replace clemons with an average guard. Burk is strictly catch n shoot, Eudy is a nice player but cannot carry the load offensively and teams have literally stopped guarding Whitfield because he can't make a shot outside of 5 feet. I can hear an argument for Cooks because he is still the leagues biggest matchup nightmare and absolutley unstoppable...when he tries. But come on now...Chris Clemons is a stud and one of the most dynamic players in this leagues history. He singlehandedly knocked out a UNCA team last year who according to kenpom was the best Big South team since Greg Marshall's peak at Winthrop.



Welcome to the board! I agree with you! If you take Clemons off that team i think they would finish above Presbyterian and Longwood but I think barely! If Clemons leaves that puts Campbell at the bottom of the north conference with Longwood next year! Will then be a huge advantage for Hpu, Hampton, Liberty and Radford.
hpufan15
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:21 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 am

Welcome to the board 1125!

I hear everyone's points here.. and I agree that Clemons is the most explosive guy in the league (& I wouldn't bet against him being the POY BTW) but Campbell didn't look all that bad collectively when he was out for a couple of games early this year is all I'm saying.. It's like when Rowsey transferred- our team actually got better overall.. again, Clemons is far more efficient than Rowsey was for us so it's not the exact same but I do think it's comparable when it comes to how other guys step up/gain confidence in lieu of a dynamic/go-to option.. if we're looking at where Campbell has been historically and if he's that dynamic why was Campbell only 7-11 in conference last year; why were they only 1 game better when he arrived? If you project 10 conference wins for the Camels which is reasonable and Clemons is essentially putting up the same numbers he did last year what makes the 3 game difference this year if not in part his teammates? It is reasonable to think they would not be as good without him but I just don't think it is as dramatic as folks believe.. and beating UNCA last year shouldn't factor into this years votes (someone on our team should have delivered at least one hard a$$ foul to make him think about the next one but I digress..) with the human factor of voting I understand that it is hard to forget and I don't discount that folks who vote will recall his epic performance including a couple of conference buzzer beaters this year.. If Campbell drops 3 of their last 4 (@RU, LU, @CSU, PC) and they finish 9-9 then I think you have to consider Cooks/Thomas first..

Last 3 seasons for CU with Clemons
2018: 8-6 conference/11-12 overall
2017: 7-11 conference/16-18 overall (Clemons made a +2 difference?)
2016: 5-13 conference/9-18 overall (Clemons made a +1 difference?)

2 season prior to Clemons
2015 4-14 conference/7-22 overall
2014: 6-10 conference/9-19 overall

For perspective when John Brown graduated HP went from 13-5 in conference to 9-9 last year (they also lost Weary, McIntyre, and Cugini; Perez-Laham transferred) so these player losses aren't quite as dramatic in going all the way down to the cellar- even for a CU team that has rarely finished above .500 in league play.. Good teams have players/depth in the wings that you don't see until/unless the guy ahead of them is not there.. I'm not sure I can consider CU a good team and as good as Clemons has been/is- he hasn't singlehandedly elevated the CU program all that much..
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:46 pm

I agree you have to ignore his tournament performance last year when voting this year, but I don't think you can ignore it when determining his value to Campbell's team. He singlehandedly led them to their first conference championship game appearance in (by my count) 24 years.

I've always gotten the impression that he would gladly average 20 and 10 if he had teammates he could rely on. It's amazing how easily he gets his 25 a night, rarely jacking up bad shots or going outside of the normal offense. (I don't watch all of their games, so admittedly could be wrong there.) I think he could average 35 per game if he was as aggressive during the regular season as he was during the tournament last year. His teammates would by default score more points if he wasn't out there, yeah, but I think he's relied on so heavily to score simply b/c his teammates aren't all that good.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby Bulldogs1125 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:38 pm

I tend to agree with Alum that Clemons is not a guy trying to get his each night. He seems to make the right play most of the time and sometimes that means taking 25 shots because his teammates are simply put... limited. That being said he's not a great defender and doesn't impact the game in as many ways like an Ahmad or Cooks. I'd still lean Clemons player of the year for dragging that roster to 10ish wins and doing It with efficient numbers. Wouldn't disagree with a Cooks selection for POY either I just think he falls WAY short of his potential. That guy should be averaging 24 and 12 without question.

If we hold on and win the league you'd have to give Ahmad a look as well. As good as he is he just has not been the same guy on the defensive end this year, maybe due to looking a little out of shape to start the season. Here would be my picks for first and second team:

First Team:
Clemons
Cooks
Thomas
Fox
Polite

Second Team:
Teague
Broman
Proctor
James
Efyiani
Bulldogs1125
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:44 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby hpufan15 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:39 am

Bulldogs1125 wrote:I tend to agree with Alum that Clemons is not a guy trying to get his each night. He seems to make the right play most of the time and sometimes that means taking 25 shots because his teammates are simply put... limited. That being said he's not a great defender and doesn't impact the game in as many ways like an Ahmad or Cooks. I'd still lean Clemons player of the year for dragging that roster to 10ish wins and doing It with efficient numbers. Wouldn't disagree with a Cooks selection for POY either I just think he falls WAY short of his potential. That guy should be averaging 24 and 12 without question.

If we hold on and win the league you'd have to give Ahmad a look as well. As good as he is he just has not been the same guy on the defensive end this year, maybe due to looking a little out of shape to start the season. Here would be my picks for first and second team:

First Team:
Clemons
Cooks
Thomas
Fox
Polite

Second Team:
Teague
Broman
Proctor
James
Efyiani


Don't have any issues with your list! I would love to see Scottie James on that first team but there is no room. Now when you put your team together did you look at the full picture of out of conference games or did you just look at conference games! To me Big South Teams need to be conference only! Not factor in anything to do with out of conference slate!
hpufan15
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:21 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:12 am

I generally agree with the list as well. Polite was a first team lock two weeks ago, but is now probably in that 4-8 range and could drop onto the 2nd team if Radford continues to slide. On the other hand, Scottie James and MaCio are making late pushes for 1st team consideration.

I also think Keeling will make the second team over Broman. Not saying I agree with it, but hard to keep a Top 5 scorer in the conference off all-conference teams. The Broman Bros might also cancel each other out as they both have a case for second team and voters will be split on which one they choose.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:22 pm

I think 4 spots are locks
Clemons, Cooks, Thomas, Polite (rebounding- top double/double threat)

That 5th spot will be interesting.. I think it will come down to Teague or Efianayi and team results will play a factor

Macio- has had impact performances that voters will remember (Campbell, Radford, HP, CSU, Longwood voters will be mindful). If UNCA finishes 1st I think he's a lock.
Efianayi- has better scoring, assists, steals than Keeling. Will likely have better team results as well. He easily edges Keeling and could find his way on that 1st team.
Proctor/Fox- Proctor actually has better overall numbers but they will take votes away from each other/split the vote which will push them both to 2nd team. HP is .500 now with game @PC, GW, LwU, @LU so how they finish will be interesting as they could win or lose any of those games although they should beat PC even on the road.
James- 12 points per game isn't sexy and most voters will not take LUs style of play and low scoring tempo into consideration but his impact in the paint is as good as Cooks/Polite as the leagues 2nd leading rebounder. If they finish strong he might get some 1st team love because he's keeping Liberty afloat and played consistently.

Since scoring is the easy/sexy pick- the Top 10 in conference only is..
1. Clemons 25.9
2. Cooks 17.8
3. Efianayi 17.7
4. Thomas 17.6
5. Teague 17.4
6. Keeling 16.8
7. Proctor 16.6
8. Fox 16.5
9. Polite 16.4 (+top rebounder)
10. Walton 16.3
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby GoUNCA on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:49 pm

Ugh. Scottie James has about 30 in the first half. Looking pretty complacent so far.
B.S. Chemistry - UNC-Asheville '08
GoUNCA
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby kingaling42 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:55 pm

Well... we can’t play much worse.. Gilmore gave us some really god minutes (except another terrible hook shot)..

Gotta get some guys heads out of their a$$es on the helpside rotations.. can’t let James & Kemrite get going early..

Let’s Go ‘Dogs!
User avatar
kingaling42
 
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Big South Conference Play

Postby UNCA Alum on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:13 pm

Well...... That sucked. 100% deserved to lose though. We are getting back to our old habit of starting extraordinarily slow.

Gotta give LU credit. They hit some big threes after losing lead and the last second play was perfectly executed. We were mentally and physically exhausted, knew we had no chance inOT.
UNCA '06

Kenny George is my hero.
UNCA Alum
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Men's Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest